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 greenest cars? you'd be surprised.
« Thread Started on Feb 24, 2009, 9:33am »

Neil Reynolds.
Globe & Mail.

OTTAWA — Could it really be so - that GM's Hummer is more than 40 per cent greener than Toyota's Prius? That Ford's F-Series pickup is greener? That GM's Silverado pickup is greener? That Dodge's Ram pickup is greener? That Cadillac's DTS, a full-sized luxury sedan with a V8 engine, is greener? Could it be, in fact, that seven different luxury-class automobiles are all greener - and that three of them are Cadillac models?

Well, indeed, it really could be. And, if so, Finance Minister Jim Flaherty's new-car incentive program is a huge environmental mistake.

Oregon-based CNW Marketing Research Inc. has conducted the world's most comprehensive analysis of the "life cycle" energy requirements of more than 100 makes and models of cars and trucks. Given the thousands of parts and processes in the manufacturing and operation of cars, it was a complex task and took the company two years to complete. Volvo once tried to do it - and gave up in frustration (though it does publish "life cycle" analysis for its own makes).

CNW identified 4,000 "data points" for each car, ranging from the energy consumed in research and development to energy consumed in junkyard disposal. It calculated the electrical energy needed to produce each pound of parts. It calculated greenhouse gas emissions. It calculated mileage, too - adjusting for the differences between rush-hour Tokyo and rural America.

The company describes this exercise as "dust to dust" analysis. CNW has now published its second annual report, a 400-page production.

To keep it relatively free of technical jargon, the company expresses energy requirement as the dollar cost of energy for every mile across a vehicle's anticipated years of use - "U.S. dollars per lifetime mile." Thus it reports the lifetime energy requirement of a Hummer as $1.90 a mile; the lifetime energy requirement of a Prius as $2.86 a mile.

It reports by model name and by category. For 22 models of economy cars, the average lifetime energy cost is $0.85. For six models of pickup trucks, it's $2.58. For 14 models of smaller-sized sports utility vehicles, it's $2.07; for nine models of larger-sized SUVs, it's $3.98. For 10 models of gas-electric hybrids, it's $3.65.

Compare the SUVs against the hybrids and you get a sweep in favour of conventional technology. The best-rated smaller SUVs are more than twice as eco-friendly as the hybrids: Dodge's Durango, $1.57; Ford's Explorer, $1.61; Chevrolet's TrailBlazer, $1.61; Jeep's Grand Cherokee, $1.80.

More remarkably, one of the larger SUVs, Ford's Expedition, beats the hybrids with an eco-cost of $3.54.

CNW found wide differences, however, within classes of vehicles. For 18 models of luxury cars, the average energy cost is $4.45. Yet the best of these luxury cars are superior, in lifetime energy use, to hybrids.

The luxury cars that rival hybrids: Lincoln's Town Car, $2.66; Acura's RL, $2.80; Cadillac's CTS, $3.19; BMW's 5 Series, $3.19; Mercedes-Benz's E-Class, $3.48; Toyota Land Cruiser 80 series, $3.49; Cadillac's STS (Seville), $3.56; Cadillac's DTS (DeVille), $3.65.

CNW's assessment of the hybrids has irritated some of the car companies.

Toyota says that CNW credited Prius with only half its 200,000 lifetime miles. CNW says that Prius owners drive less than 7,500 miles a year - meaning that these cars will be scrapped long before they use their expected lifetime mileage (in 26 years). CNW says that hybrids fare poorly because of increased complexity. Honda's conventional Accord gets rated at $2.18; its Accord Hybrid gets rated at $3.29 - an environmental cost 50 per cent higher.

Take the batteries, for example. Toyota buys 1,000 tonnes of nickel a year from Ontario (mined and smelted in Sudbury). This nickel gets shipped to Wales for refining, then to China, for further processing, and then to Toyota's battery plant in Tokyo - a 10,000-mile trip, mostly by petrol-gulping container ships and diesel-powered locomotives.

Toyota, however, still has some of the greenest vehicles on earth. The Scion has the lowest energy cost of all at 48 cents a mile. The Corolla, at 72 cents, and the Echo (Yaris), at 77 cents, are also in the best-on-earth class. Low-energy competitors include Dodge's Neon (64 cents) and Saturn's Ion (67 cents). Cars with the highest energy requirement include the Rolls Royce ($10.97) and the equally elegant German-made Maybach ($15.83).

In his March budget, Mr. Flaherty made fuel efficiency - gas mileage alone - the sole basis for the environmental rating of new cars. He will reward high-mileage cars (with rebates from $1,000 to $2,000) and punish low-mileage cars (with surcharges from $1,000 to $4,000). The program could well be a phenomenal waste of energy. Junk it, Mr. Flaherty. It's not fit for the road.

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 Re: greenest cars? you'd be surprised.
« Reply #1 on Feb 24, 2009, 9:48am »

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Refined proven technology will win every time vs new-fangled tech
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 Re: greenest cars? you'd be surprised.
« Reply #2 on Feb 24, 2009, 9:56am »

Watch this. Clicky
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 Re: greenest cars? you'd be surprised.
« Reply #3 on Feb 24, 2009, 12:09pm »


Feb 24, 2009, 9:48am, Mr. RallyRoach wrote:
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Refined proven technology will win every time vs new-fangled tech


not to mention.... how many ppl that own hybrids, and electric vechials, know that most fire departments are not trained to work on, or extricate some one from an eletrically powered car.

as a captain in a very well trained department ( one of our guys spent 2 years teaching the pre-employment program at the fire school) i won't ask my guys to touch an electric, or hybrid car. actually, i'd tell them to stay away, untill the manufacture is contacted, and proper instructions are obtained..... with some systems in the 600volt range, and discharging over 600 amps... it's not worth the life of my firefighters..... :o
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 Re: greenest cars? you'd be surprised.
« Reply #4 on Feb 24, 2009, 12:31pm »

Wow, and we're encouraged to buy hybrids - so I'm essentially putting the safety of my staff at risk. Is this universally known???
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 Re: greenest cars? you'd be surprised.
« Reply #5 on Feb 24, 2009, 1:47pm »


Feb 24, 2009, 12:09pm, theonlybull wrote:

Feb 24, 2009, 9:48am, Mr. RallyRoach wrote:
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Refined proven technology will win every time vs new-fangled tech


not to mention.... how many ppl that own hybrids, and electric vechials, know that most fire departments are not trained to work on, or extricate some one from an eletrically powered car.

as a captain in a very well trained department ( one of our guys spent 2 years teaching the pre-employment program at the fire school) i won't ask my guys to touch an electric, or hybrid car. actually, i'd tell them to stay away, untill the manufacture is contacted, and proper instructions are obtained..... with some systems in the 600volt range, and discharging over 600 amps... it's not worth the life of my firefighters..... :o


Very interesting! I have never even heard this mentioned before. I hate to grab my tin-foil hat (but I will ;D ), but I'm wondering why this info has never been reported to the media?
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 Re: greenest cars? you'd be surprised.
« Reply #6 on Feb 24, 2009, 2:41pm »

because the media is a lying circus to control the masses, a tool of the manufacturing and banking elite cartel that controls the world?

it has been reported time and time again "to the media" they ignore it. the gov't ignores whatever doesn't make them appear a cetain way, like the overpowering need to put a GREEN sticker on anything and everything without any actual validation, in an effort to retain votes and a grip on power, thru the ignorance of a dumbed-down population brainwashed by aformentioned brainwashing media controled by business that finances the making of the expensive non-enviroment friendly eco-products.

we are Fawked.


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 Re: greenest cars? you'd be surprised.
« Reply #7 on Feb 24, 2009, 3:43pm »


Feb 24, 2009, 2:41pm, Creepy wrote:
because the media is a lying circus to control the masses, a tool of the manufacturing and banking elite cartel that controls the world?

it has been reported time and time again "to the media" they ignore it. the gov't ignores whatever doesn't make them appear a cetain way, like the overpowering need to put a GREEN sticker on anything and everything without any actual validation, in an effort to retain votes and a grip on power, thru the ignorance of a dumbed-down population brainwashed by aformentioned brainwashing media controled by business that finances the making of the expensive non-enviroment friendly eco-products.

we are Fawked.




At least I've got my Hat :)
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 Re: greenest cars? you'd be surprised.
« Reply #8 on Feb 24, 2009, 3:51pm »

I've got a really nice one. 8-)

thick, lots of krinkles.

considering starting the FAC requirements so i'll be mildly prepared with the proper tools for when SHTF.

seriously. :P

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 Re: greenest cars? you'd be surprised.
« Reply #9 on Feb 24, 2009, 4:00pm »


Feb 24, 2009, 3:51pm, Creepy wrote:
I've got a really nice one. 8-)

thick, lots of krinkles.

considering starting the FAC requirements so i'll be mildly prepared with the proper tools for when SHTF.

seriously. :P



LOL, I hear ya. I used to laugh at the "Bug-out Bag" threads on Pirate. Now I'm reading them intently and wishing I could buy a nice family size farm in the South Shore and go off-grid...
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 Re: greenest cars? you'd be surprised.
« Reply #10 on Feb 24, 2009, 4:12pm »


Feb 24, 2009, 3:43pm, Mr. RallyRoach wrote:


At least I've got my Hat :)


Patent it, get the government to say its green, slap a sticker on that sucker and sell it for 100 times what its worth!!
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 Re: greenest cars? you'd be surprised.
« Reply #11 on Feb 24, 2009, 4:54pm »

I can see myself running the lathe off a bicycle crank making cut-down 12 gauge barrels while zombies and gangbangers try to steal my provisions. late 2010.

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 Re: greenest cars? you'd be surprised.
« Reply #12 on Feb 24, 2009, 5:11pm »

http://www.pacinst.org/topics/integrity_....er_vs_prius.pdf

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 Re: greenest cars? you'd be surprised.
« Reply #13 on Feb 24, 2009, 6:07pm »


Feb 24, 2009, 4:54pm, Creepy wrote:
I can see myself running the lathe off a bicycle crank making cut-down 12 gauge barrels while zombies and gangbangers try to steal my provisions. late 2010.




Don't worry, I'll lend you one, I can only shoot 2 at a time on the best day. ;D
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 Re: greenest cars? you'd be surprised.
« Reply #14 on Feb 24, 2009, 7:55pm »


Feb 24, 2009, 5:11pm, mrfixit wrote:
http://www.pacinst.org/topics/integrity_of_science/case_studies/hummer_vs_prius.pdf



he's one of them! run! :D

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