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Post by Truro Offroad on Jun 15, 2011 7:55:59 GMT -4
I could be wrong on this but..
It seems to me that the people attending the Jam have changed.
Before it used to be more of a single guys event, very few women or families.
Now it seems like there are a lot more couples, families going which doubles or triples your cost to go.
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Enos
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Post by Enos on Jun 15, 2011 8:30:24 GMT -4
Now it seems like there are a lot more couples, families going which doubles or triples your cost to go. Where the cost is directly related to the meals, I don't see where the price could go down unless you eliminated the meals. Without the meal package provided by Fox Mountian, the cost of camping would go up. Luc and others have explained the pricing many times. If it wasn't for the money left over from the last Jam sponsored by Chrysler, which they have managed to carry over to the next year I don't see how the Jam could even happen unless registration closed at the end of January. This isn't a profit making event. If they do offer trail only packages, that's great for those that have somewhere else to stay, but it could increase the cost to have Fox Mountain which could lower the numbers of people who want to camp there and take advantage of the full package. I am one of the ones who hasn't made it because of the cost, but that has nothing to do with the Jam itself, it is because I don't have the money. Vacation time and the money related to vacations is saved for when Joan has vacation and the kids are out of school in the summer. I have no interest in going by myself. There have been other events which were pay your own way. The Bear River night run for example. From the comments here it sounds like we should see hundreds of people showing up at Alan's for the type of weekend they want as opposed to the dozen or so that usually do.
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Post by Truro Offroad on Jun 15, 2011 8:46:41 GMT -4
Now it seems like there are a lot more couples, families going which doubles or triples your cost to go. Where the cost is directly related to the meals, I don't see where the price could go down unless you eliminated the meals. Without the meal package provided by Fox Mountian, the cost of camping would go up. The way I see it, for the wife, me and the kid to go thats $455.00 + fuel for the weekend.. probably an easy $200 or more in fuel + misc. expenses $100 so say $750 for a weekend. That is a pretty expensive weekend to go wheeling. Even when we go camping for a weekend its usually around $250 bucks or so, that is 2 nights, fuel in the Liberty and all the food and drinks we need. I have gone to 4 Jams, the first being back in 96, I had a great time at everyone of them. If I could afford to spend that in a weekend right now, we would go again. I think the jam has to be looked at and see what can be done to help reduce the cost. I am sure there are ways to do this. I know I would like to go again, maybe actually use my jeep, but it has to be affordable for me to do so.
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Post by Aggressive Behavior on Jun 15, 2011 10:16:59 GMT -4
Been reading this for two days now....Its seems to be all people talk about is the cost per family.....
JAM
2 adults and 1 child= 225 x 2 + 65 =515 thats camping and food
at fox mountain....
i just looked at Vidito's camp site because they give prices out on line...
same family of three....
just tents .....20 a night and 40 for food a day =180
full serves site ....31 a night and 40 for food a day =213
i know that is without the big tent...but Hell the red bull tent would work just fine....
less prizes may keep the cost down too...
so the family of three can wheel for around 220 instead of 515...eat what you want .....I myself do not enjoy fox mount. food anyway...
I know there is more cost involved but it somthing to look at...that is one of the reason Back Country moved their event....
my thoughts...
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Post by HardRox on Jun 15, 2011 10:19:48 GMT -4
and i do belivce extra nights at viditos for the back country run is only like $10 i thought i read on crackbook
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Post by crazyfrog on Jun 15, 2011 10:45:58 GMT -4
Doug started this thread about what would you change with improvement in mind, I don't think he meant it to be a forum about people financial problem, those of you who were there, all had a big smile on all week end, Doug is the only person who approach me our talk never involved money it involved improving the event there is more and more event popping up all can say choose the one you can afford, I go to fall crawl because I can afford it, and may push to a Quebec or Ontario one, I love to go to Moab but can't afford it, again if you are looking at cost look at the big picture, and make your proposal fair for everyone, by the way the cost this year was the same as last year but taxes, power, food, and petro went up, lots to think about.
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Post by Aggressive Behavior on Jun 15, 2011 10:58:10 GMT -4
Sorry to here you say that.....just cause you have lots of Money to throw around does not mean all familys do...
it family event....so the family with two or three little boys that love to see all the different jeep...just cant go
I can aford it.....but some cant....read back and see how many said wish they could go but could not because of cost...
we are aload to have thoughts...are we not???
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Post by lovingtheRubi on Jun 15, 2011 11:01:40 GMT -4
Thank you aggressive.
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Creepy
Administrator
Dartmouth
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Post by Creepy on Jun 15, 2011 11:16:10 GMT -4
Luc, i most certainly spoke to you about costs and serviced sites and food for a good 20 minutes. I came away from the conversation confused. Perhaps I misunderstand what you are trying to say in the above post. If its really that no one came to you with concerns, I hope this rattles your memory, because I made a point of it and planned to for weeks, and we did have that conversation. Granted, it was kinda late.
thx.
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Enos
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Post by Enos on Jun 15, 2011 11:17:59 GMT -4
Ok, throw out all the talk about money and meals...I agree with Luc that this isn't the purpose of this. What other things have been brough up:
The mud pit runs too late on Saturday night (and it always has been): - have the awards on Sunday and start the pit earlier - drop the mud pit entirely (might not be a bad idea after the complaints from this year) - have the mud pit Sunday
Entertainment Saturday night (live band?): - costs money if you hire someone - could be additional liability?? - any musicians in the club that would be willing to work together for the benifit of everyone?
Entertainment for kids: - personally, I don't think the Jam chairs should be saddled as baby sitters - this is the Jeep Jam - slides, kiddy pool? Who volonteers to monitor them? - I wasn't there for the Jam so I can't comment on the mini Jeep - but wouldn't that be an ATV with all the applicable laws associated with minors on it?
Quiet area: - from the couple of times I was there at Fox Mountain, I have to agree. A designated quiet camping area for those that want it is a great idea. People with kids or those that just want some sleep should have that option. Quiet on this end of the field after 11pm - party on the other end. Enforcing this is a whole different kettle of worms, but if there are complaints the Jam committee could deal with them.
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Post by crazyfrog on Jun 15, 2011 12:11:30 GMT -4
Thanks for refreshing my memories Jan and yes we are looking in it, You have my ears and I recall saying I cant change everything in one year, I am trying very hard to keep this civil and honest, but for those who see me as trowing money around wow! I sleep in a tent, I own only my jeep, no camper no house no truck or trailer, and I dont want to get into this it is private, the forum will be at the AGM.
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badwithcomputer
Jeeper
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Post by badwithcomputer on Jun 15, 2011 12:26:13 GMT -4
I planned to say nothing in this thread, but i feel Luc is taking a lot of heat on his own shoulders. To keep it simple, and from what i've seen. The best is being done to accommodate everyone. Plain and simple. The old saying goes you can't please everyone all of the time.
Imagine trying to make 184 people happy. There has to be a middle ground, and so far this is what has worked for the past number of years.
That is my understanding.
There is always room for growth and change, and the Co Chairs and committee members will make sure it's done in such a way that can accommodate almost 200 people. Some wont like it, some will love it and some will be indifferent. It's the way the world works, no one can be happy 100% of the time but they can be happy and that's what the Jam strives for.
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BILL
Jeeper
Posts: 3,029
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Post by BILL on Jun 15, 2011 12:32:46 GMT -4
I planned to say nothing in this thread, but i feel Luc is taking a lot of heat on his own shoulders. To keep it simple, and from what i've seen. The best is being done to accommodate everyone. Plain and simple. The old saying goes you can't please everyone all of the time. Imagine trying to make 184 people happy. There has to be a middle ground, and so far this is what has worked for the past number of years. That is my understanding. There is always room for growth and change, and the Co Chairs and committee members will make sure it's done in such a way that can accommodate almost 200 people. Some wont like it, some will love it and some will be indifferent. It's the way the world works, no one can be happy 100% of the time but they can be happy and that's what the Jam strives for. Well Said
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coolwind1
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Post by coolwind1 on Jun 15, 2011 12:38:59 GMT -4
This is Jenny typing... First of all, I want to thank all the trail guides and Jam committee members for making our first Jam a truly fun, and memorable experience, and one we definitely plan to repeat. There is a lot of hard work, and time and expense that goes into planning such a large event, and know that even though people do their best, 100% of the population will never be happy with the way everything went. Such is life. I know the trail guides (and passengers) were putting in extra time besides the obligations before jam as well in helping out at the activities (mudpit, blindfold race and distributing lunches), thus taking away from their own personal relaxation time. Thank you for this, it was noticed and appreciated!!! From reading the comments, my suggestions are along the same as most. Since we won our tickets, cost wasn't really a factor there. I have to say I loved the idea of the boxed lunches. Not being much of a morning person, I'm glad they were included in the plan for the weekend. Otherwise, we would have been eating chips for lunch since getting up, showered and meeting on time to hit the trails was about the extent of what I want to do in the morning. Making lunches to take with us...nuh uh!! A suggestion for the Saturday night meal...why not have a cold plate - turkey, roast beef or ham, with salads and a roll. The plates could be dished up a lot faster, with everything having been prepared ahead of time. The campground could even prepare quite a few of them earlier in the styrofoam containers used for the lunches and keep them in the fridges. Just an idea... As for the mudpit, an earlier start would be good. Maybe have the closing ceremony on Sunday and start the pit earlier Saturday night, before people have gotten into the refreshments too heavily. On that note, I agree with what was written b4. The pit should be the same as a trail..no drugs, no booze. There are even more people in the area when the mudpit is going on than there is on the trail, so more chance of accidents happening. Also, alcohol does affect judgement, and someone who's had a few may be a little more willing to take the extra risk than they would sober. I'm glad we didn't go in it ourselves after hearing the rocks hitting the fans, and seeing what came off some of the jeeps. But its each person's choice whether to drive their rig thru it, so gotta expect carnage....same as running a trail. The shirts - I'm happy with my t-shirt, but would love to see a tank top as an option too. Entertainment - Yes, having a band would add more cost to the event. I'm sure someone in the club has or knows someone with a Karaoke machine...maybe have a Jam Idol for fun. And I'm sure there are some talented musicians, so an imprompu "kitchen party" is an option as well. As for the kids, I know there was a Glowstick war going on Friday night. While I don't think the jam committee should have the added obligation of providing entertainment for the little ones, a thread could be started prior to jam for anyone bringing their kids, and the parents could brainstorm activities for the kids (and be there to supervise it) There was plenty of empty field space around that the kids could have a safe area to play. Maybe ribbon off a section to prevent traffic from taking shortcuts thru a certain area. That brings me to another point...I've been at plenty of campgrounds, and Fox mountain was probably the most lenient I've seen. Most places would have a fit over people driving across the campground and not sticking to the roads, and also allowing the late night noise. I had wished there was a pool or lake onsite, but most campgrounds with those facilities would likely be more strict. Once again, thank you to all who made this a weekend we'll never forget!! Jenny
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Big G
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Post by Big G on Jun 15, 2011 12:54:59 GMT -4
John Cranfield didn't give his "Gentlemen, start your engines" speach at the 1st drivers meeting. We missed hearing it.
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