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Post by theonlybull on May 27, 2009 19:45:33 GMT -4
chains, or binders will work, either have their pluses and minuses. either can fail. either can injure. and either can be used safely.
i've read this same topic on hauling equipment, tractors, fabricated equipment, and trucks.
the best that i've heard. check your local regulations, and regs for any province/state you may be traveling in.
, cross atleast one set of tie downs.
check everything 3 times before moving. including your lights and brakes ( i've been in an accident when trailering. first question asked of me.. are you sure your lights were working)
after the first few miles, stop for another quick check. ( or before entering a 100 series highway)
keep an eye on your mirrors. on your load, and others that are following or passing(they will give you clues if something is loose or moving around)
check you load occasionally.
don't over drive your set-up. leave lots of room infront, and lets people by if there's more then 2 or 3 behind you.
stay safe and have fun
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Post by tothewall on May 27, 2009 20:32:46 GMT -4
I realize that there are those that think everything on Pirate is gospel, but on this topic that I know a fair bit about, I think they are pretty well blowhards. Everyone in there thinks they know everything, or at least that is my opinion. Bawhahah! the irony! Your exact attitude right there is what you don't like about pirate4x4. lol. there are too many people posting like you just did and ruining it. my gawd. The Billavista articles ARE regarded as gospel, and written to be "the final word" on technical subjects and refered to as such, even by professionals. The linked threads are full of information, which you must filter to get what you need, same as any forum. That forum happens to have a pretty high ratio of people who know "what the fawk they are talking about" and you can glean a ton of info there without having to gain the experience by say, flipping your rig. Please list your chainbinder experience to alleviate your symptoms of being an opinionated blowhard know-it-all, as you say the posted reference material is full of. Ever held one? i wish you wouldn't force me to give you the gears while on vacation, you are supposed to be having fun! lolNo problem O benevolent overlord. Gear away. I was reading through one of the threads on tie downs and a lot of the people in ther are talking about what works and what does not work and there was very little info on what they were actually tying down. Someone made a reference in here about a guy with all kinds of experience tying down race cars and other assorted stiff-suspensioned vehicles giving input on how to tie things down and how his experience may not apply to the situation that we find as Jeepers. This is very accurate and is missing from the Pirate board thread that I was reading. I would never suggest that what Bill has to say is not gospel as he will have forgotten more about things technical that I will ever hope to know. What I am saying is that I have appreciable experience towing almost exactly what Bunny is trying to tow under very similar conditions and therefore in this instance know what the fawk I am talking about. In the absence of any chain binder experience that I have had no need to get because the straps have worked out most excellently for me to this point. Your point about the braking was an excellent one. I totally droopped the ball in not pointing that out. The way the Cummins stops the trailer is night and day over the Gasser. Doing a fine job. As you were.
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Hawkes
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Post by Hawkes on May 27, 2009 21:23:07 GMT -4
I wonder if this would be the same as crossing the chain, it's what I do. The chain actually rides between the tread lugs in the rear wheels, so any side movement would be hindered by the tires.
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The Garagemahal
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Post by The Garagemahal on May 27, 2009 23:11:26 GMT -4
I have used nothing but binds and chains for years moving jeeps from as far as Liverpool , and Rawdon , and I have had no bad experience with them what so ever !!!!
I have always binded down on the axle and never the body
I have only just recently used straps for moving Jeeps , it is way easier , by far . Anyone who has never used them should not be posting straps , as the only way to tie down anything , to trailer it , until you have used both
Lack of experience does not make you know it all about tying down anything on a trailer , any one of which could come lose at anytime , for any reason
Knowledge on what is right and wrong is key here , and you should always keep a close eye on your load , at all times
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Dewie
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Post by Dewie on May 28, 2009 9:01:47 GMT -4
I too have used both chains/binders and straps... each has their perks... as mentioned.
Personally I like using chains - left of trailer to right of vehicle - crossed.
I have also used straps/wheel straps. Straps are lighter and easier to move around...
As mentioned - everything can fail - everything can be used effectively as well.
Also - for me there is no question - strap to the axles, not the body. The body can fail and the excessive forces put on the straps from the body bobbing around like a bobble head can break the straps too.
When using a tow dolly they all use straps and safety chains... so the technology is proven.
If I were to be using wheel straps on a flat-deck I'd like proper ratchet setups for each wheel - that would be about the only way I'd willing use straps over chains anymore...
When using chains/binders, make sure you wrap the handles of the binders with bungee cords, or tie them with wire. Your tires do still have some give (even trailers have some give - and the things can work themselves loose)
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Creepy
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Post by Creepy on May 28, 2009 10:12:07 GMT -4
When using chains/binders, make sure you wrap the handles of the binders with bungee cords, or tie them with wire. Your tires do still have some give (even trailers have some give - and the things can work themselves loose) This. I have an uncle with permanent disabilities because some idiot fawked up tieing the binder, and when my uncle checked his load, he got a binder handle in the side of the head, knocking him out alone in the snow, and breaking a bunch of bones, migranes for life and blind in that eye. (load of pipe on an 18wheeler flatdeck) They are like a highlift in that regard, waiting to kill you. So please give that a little more thought before your tie jobs. Stay out of the swing of the handle just like a hi-lift.
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bill richards
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Post by bill richards on May 28, 2009 10:23:23 GMT -4
All else being equal... that sells me on straps... Bill
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Dewie
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Post by Dewie on May 28, 2009 10:33:34 GMT -4
Wowzors I'm sorry to hear of your uncle You make a good point though - like a loaded gun - if handled/used properly it is harmless, if not... yeah. I can't help but wonder if the binder was tied, but not latched properly? You tie the handle only to keep it from bouncing out, not to hold the load - that defeats the purpose of the chain bind entirely. Though if it wasn't tied tightly enough it could have bounced out then it would have been spring-loaded disaster :S Whatever you end up doing - do it safe.
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Creepy
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Post by Creepy on May 28, 2009 10:59:10 GMT -4
load shifted and put the force of 20 tons of pipe on an improperly close binder.
he touched it to fix it and it opened catching him upside the head.
that's all the details i have. just throwing it out there.
You wouldn't see those forces tring down your rig, but maybe something similar could happen after a rough drive. (albeit with less force on the binder)
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Hawkes
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Post by Hawkes on May 28, 2009 11:02:29 GMT -4
I wrap the loose end of the chain around the binder then bungee the whole thing. I don't crank mine with a piece of pipe, as the one that got your uncle probably was. I like the idea of airing down before binding then airing up but don't do it.
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Post by tothewall on May 28, 2009 15:01:15 GMT -4
I have used nothing but binds and chains for years moving jeeps from as far as Liverpool , and Rawdon , and I have had no bad experience with them what so ever !!!! I have always binded down on the axle and never the body I have only just recently used straps for moving Jeeps , it is way easier , by far . Anyone who has never used them should not be posting straps , as the only way to tie down anything , to trailer it , until you have used both Lack of experience does not make you know it all about tying down anything on a trailer , any one of which could come lose at anytime , for any reason Knowledge on what is right and wrong is key here , and you should always keep a close eye on your load , at all times Some excellent points here.
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Post by theonlybull on May 28, 2009 21:10:09 GMT -4
you can also get the ratchet binders, never used them on a load, but have used them on a few roll deck tail gates, and they seem to pull as good or better then binders, and no broken jaws
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Post by mostheman on May 29, 2009 6:19:44 GMT -4
the rachet binders are the way to go buit theyre not cheap like the other ones. No explosive handle forces and no pipe needed to close as your not limited by changing the length by one ink increments. I like them way better than the others but the old style is what we use here.
Sent a piece of pipe flying into the woods unhooking someone elses load last summer. Never found the pipe. Jans' right they can be like a loaded gun.
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Post by NSJeepster on May 29, 2009 6:29:59 GMT -4
I use the binders everyday to tie down an excavator on my trailer. You do have to be careful. We are not allowed to cross the chains. one at all 4 corners and a chain for the boom. The ratchet binders are good but have to be greased often much safer but alot slower.
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Dewie
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Post by Dewie on May 29, 2009 7:41:58 GMT -4
Not allowed to cross the chains? When I worked at Logan Drilling they always crossed their chains when loading their portable drills - the larger drills were just kind of put on differently depending on the rigs. Any time I have ever loaded anything I have crossed the chains.
Any particular reason why you aren't allowed? I have seen stuff move around when not cross-chained... (a rod scoot - aka a little skid with sides that you put drill rods in)
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