Dewie
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Post by Dewie on Dec 10, 2009 15:09:27 GMT -4
First off: FML..... After 2 solid weeks of running my heat-pump, the deep well pump (down the well) that was here when I moved in seems to be giving up on me... I have nooo idea why - it just isn't flowing enough water suddenly and the heat-pump shuts off on freeze-up protection. Now, I've been TOLD that the pump is a 2 wire self starting pump... it only has 2 wires run out to it so that's really all I have to go by as well. It is only 1/2 HP as well - which barely meets the flow requirements as it, but it did none-the-less (and the price was right - it was here when we moved in) I realize I'm likely looking at a fair bit of coin for a new pump... anyone know of something used around?
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Post by Truro Offroad on Dec 10, 2009 15:40:23 GMT -4
you won't find used and if you do its gonna be close to the same price as new...
HP rating is not what you need to worry about, you need to worry about GPM of the pump..
I have 1/2hp that flow 15gpm, or I have 1/2hp that flow 5gpm.
You need to find out how many GPM your heat pump requires and then how many GPM your house is using. Then you can find a pump to do the job. I am assuming your well is supplying both the heat pump and house use.
Saying its a 2 wire just means it has the starter built into the motor, which means you have no control box on the wall, not much of a difference in price between the two.
Where is your house at? Would be nice to know what the pump is set at and what GPM was in it.
If you are having a problem with water flow, is it possible your well is running dry? being over pumped? any idea how far from surface your water is?
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Dewie
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Yeah thats right - I drive a Lada :P
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Post by Dewie on Dec 10, 2009 16:11:20 GMT -4
ok, a bit more info
I have a dug well for the house, and a Jet Pump on it - the heat pump is on a drilled well which is high in LimeStone (iirc - some heavy mineral anyways) (I live in Alton - so not surprising)
I realize about the self starting bit meaning the starter is built into the motor - it just sucks that I'm limited to only self starting pumps - wasn't sure if it'd greatly limit what I have or not. (My father has a spare pump, but it requires a starter box)
The well was supposed to be yielding 30GPM but - again - hard water.
The unit requires between 8-12 GPM. We had timed it when we started and we were filling a 5gallon pail in about 30-35seconds.
The pump is about 150 ft down with the water being about 100 ft down(or so I thought - my father seems to think different) (we had it out this summer, burred water lines, installed a pit-less adapter, etc)
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Post by Truro Offroad on Dec 10, 2009 16:19:23 GMT -4
Alton would be high in limestone, at least parts will be.
your not limited to 3 wire pumps, you can change out the wire and go to a 4 wire pump, with a control box on the wall, but u have to run new wire to do it.
your water is 100 feet from the top of the well? and producing 30gpm? should come up farther then that if its producing that much, or is it drawing down to a working level of 100'
Did you ohm the motor to see if it is the motor?
I can give you the specs on what the motor draws for amps etc
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Post by Truro Offroad on Dec 10, 2009 16:23:32 GMT -4
IF its a franklin electric motor on it, which it probably is.
i'm assuming its 230v too:
Full load Amps 5.0 Maximum Service Factor Load 6.0 amps Winding Res. In Ohms 4.2 - 5.2
If its drawing high amps on start up, it could be the liquid end is locked up, or the motor is shot.
If its the liquid end that is locked up, you can replace just the liquid end of the pump and same if its the motor side, u can just replace the motor.
really need to test the pump to see what it is doing first.
Is there any low water protection on the system?
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Dewie
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Junk Lord
Yeah thats right - I drive a Lada :P
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Post by Dewie on Dec 10, 2009 22:46:16 GMT -4
IF its a franklin electric motor on it, which it probably is. i'm assuming its 230v too: Full load Amps 5.0 Maximum Service Factor Load 6.0 amps Winding Res. In Ohms 4.2 - 5.2 If its drawing high amps on start up, it could be the liquid end is locked up, or the motor is shot. If its the liquid end that is locked up, you can replace just the liquid end of the pump and same if its the motor side, u can just replace the motor. really need to test the pump to see what it is doing first. Is there any low water protection on the system? there is currently no low water pressure protection on the system... there will be though - the switch we have now isn't working correctly. For that matter I don't have a pressure gauge on it either. It has been working through-out the day today - its when the unit has to run for a long duration of time that it kicks off on freeze-up protection..
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Post by Truro Offroad on Dec 11, 2009 8:05:55 GMT -4
IF its a franklin electric motor on it, which it probably is. i'm assuming its 230v too: Full load Amps 5.0 Maximum Service Factor Load 6.0 amps Winding Res. In Ohms 4.2 - 5.2 If its drawing high amps on start up, it could be the liquid end is locked up, or the motor is shot. If its the liquid end that is locked up, you can replace just the liquid end of the pump and same if its the motor side, u can just replace the motor. really need to test the pump to see what it is doing first. Is there any low water protection on the system? there is currently no low water pressure protection on the system... there will be though - the switch we have now isn't working correctly. For that matter I don't have a pressure gauge on it either. It has been working through-out the day today - its when the unit has to run for a long duration of time that it kicks off on freeze-up protection.. If that is the case, sounds like you are either: A) running out of water in the well B) working level of the well has dropped so that it is below the pump now, which you could set the pump deeper if need be
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Dewie
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Junk Lord
Yeah thats right - I drive a Lada :P
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Post by Dewie on Dec 11, 2009 9:39:35 GMT -4
Hmm... I am somewhat doubtful about the water level - I had run it for almost 2 days straight back in the summer trying to get it to clear up so we could use it to water the horses.
I have another thermistor I am to try on the heat-pump - apparently you can actually bring the water level down below freezing as long as it is moving. This is done very regularly on these water-source installs (or so we are told).
We were also told that we may need to up the pressure of the water a bit (that maybe we're not running high enough pressure for the switch we have) and that bringing up the pressure will reduce the amperage the pump draws? I have 1" run from the pump to the house - and the smallest it gets is 3/4" pex. It was suggested I install a ball valve on the outlet side with a gauge and set it up so the pressure comes up some. Thoughts?
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Dewie
Jeeper
Junk Lord
Yeah thats right - I drive a Lada :P
Posts: 1,249
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Post by Dewie on Dec 12, 2009 17:54:12 GMT -4
Welllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll.... hell... First off, here is my well: www.gov.ns.ca/nse/welldatabase/welldetail.asp?f_well=952047Second off - we've determined the issue seems to be that the pump isn't pumping consistently - its like the well isn't making enough water - so it flows like crazy, then the pressure/water flow drops.... stops... then flows like crazy again. In looking at my well it appears the water is a loooong way down - I am thinking maybe the pump should be deeper...
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Sandboxcowboy
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Oh yes, please tell me how deep that mud puddle was in beaver bank.....
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Post by Sandboxcowboy on Dec 13, 2009 0:15:09 GMT -4
wow, thats some kool stuff to find on your well.
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Post by theonlybull on Dec 13, 2009 8:55:32 GMT -4
wow, thats some kool stuff to find on your well. pretty neat. i didn't know such a database existed
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Dewie
Jeeper
Junk Lord
Yeah thats right - I drive a Lada :P
Posts: 1,249
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Post by Dewie on Dec 13, 2009 9:46:35 GMT -4
yeah a former co-worker used to work at the registry of deeds - she knew about all kinds of cool stuff I had no idea existed.
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Post by crazyfrog on Dec 13, 2009 12:58:36 GMT -4
You can install an overload sensor in your house instead of float sensor when the water get low the pump speed up the sensor trip the pump. they are programmable,when the float started to fail at work I just abandoned them there and installed those 179.00 a pop. I run 3 well to supply a twin pad rink I also used sonar sensor for storage tank level 1000.00 each. a 100' is not much for storage capacity my well are drilled to 400' because you reach water at 100' you should go deeper that water column is your storage, recovery happens over time
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Dewie
Jeeper
Junk Lord
Yeah thats right - I drive a Lada :P
Posts: 1,249
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Post by Dewie on Dec 13, 2009 18:44:42 GMT -4
Going deeper with the well would be great - if I had that option financially right now... Not too sure what I'm going to do honestly... Maybe install dad's old air-source heatpump for the winter... if this keeps up.
What are the chances the seams in the ground may open up some as I keep using the pump?
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Post by Truro Offroad on Dec 13, 2009 19:56:27 GMT -4
More then likely the working level of the well has dropped below the level of the pump set...
Looks like its gravel packed up to 185' mark, I would try and set the pump at about 175' which would be 25' deeper then what you are at now.
All you need is 175' of new poly pipe and then u can splice in 25' of new wire...
they may open up or they may close off with use, its hard to say.
I would set the pump deeper
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