rue
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Post by rue on Sept 9, 2013 16:43:48 GMT -4
The RCVs "might" be as strong as the aftermarket toy axles ,but they are twice the money. Plus the stamped steel housing of the Toyota are so much easier to work with. And like Creepy said they are way lighter than a 44. My bare toy housings with the trusses on them are 51 lbs.
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Post by chefted on Sept 9, 2013 19:54:28 GMT -4
What is soo great about a toyota Ft housing? You have to buy aftermarket axels? The arms come off the knuckles with hard use. They are too narrow for the rear he wants to use, they bend under hard use. They are getting hard to come buy. In short, I don't get it. In this instance its Scott wanting to try out different gear. Its not really a tech choice. They are kinda fun to work on too. - Everything is upgradable for way cheaper than a D44, and you wind up with a very light weight, strong axle. - Yes, you have to truss a Toy, it will bend. - Toys require aftermarket axle JOINTS. D44 requires aftermarket AXLES. The CV Toy design really cuts down on wheel-hop induced by u-joint phasing too. Kinda sounds like bullshit, but after going from stock joints to RCV's in my LJ, it does make a difference. The front wheels don't hop anymore. - D44 requires knuckle swaps and machine work for high steer, Toys bolt together. And have bolt on upgrade options instead of even more machine work to upgrade further. Its an advantage, not a disadvantage ,that the knuckles have bolt on arms. - Toys have massive brakes, big as 3/4 ton 8bolt D44. - Toys are a treat to set up gears in, diff on the bench, adjustable backlash. D44 are whores with the spacers. - the narrowness can be accounted for with basically free mod of IFS hubs and\or wheelspacers, the wheelbearings don't mind (they are huge, D60 size) My buggy WMS is front is at 59.5, rear is 60. That's the wide rear. So it does match. Granted if you need wider, you have to cut the housings, whereas D44 have width options. - Getting hard to find? Not really, you just have to look. no worse than a D44. Perhaps harder to find in good shape, but I could tell you a story of getting free ones in awesome shape and putting them under the CJ. I have just as many people looking for my D44 parts as I do Scott wanting one of my front axles. Might be different in NB, but here, Toys might be a bit easier to find, or maybe its because I don't look for D44's anymore. Used Toy front hub-to-hub in 1/2 decent shape commands $250 - parts are cheap and readily avail from TrailGear. knuckle rebuild kits etc.,but you'll wait 3 days for shipping. D44's you can just go to the local parts store. WEIGHT, in capitals! lol A superior design can maintain strength with less materials. I could lift my trussed Toy housing over my head, need two guys to move a D44 housing. Have you worked on Toys much? .They are fun I find. "- Everything is upgradable for way cheaper than a D44, and you wind up with a very light weight, strong axle." The only thing that is cheaper is the axels, brake parts, seals, bearings all cost more. It may be even if you order from trail gear. But I can go down to the parts store and get it today or if I am in a strange to me city. "- Toys require aftermarket axle JOINTS. D44 requires aftermarket AXLES. The CV Toy design really cuts down on wheel-hop induced by u-joint phasing too. Kinda sounds like bullshit, but after going from stock joints to RCV's in my LJ, it does make a difference. The front wheels don't hop anymore." Agreed "- D44 requires knuckle swaps and machine work for high steer, Toys bolt together. And have bolt on upgrade options instead of even more machine work to upgrade further. Its an advantage, not a disadvantage ,that the knuckles have bolt on arms." Wasn't saying it was a disadvantage that the arms bolt on. I am saying the factory 4 bot system suck moose balls and has to be upgraded, with either the 5th std (Machine work) or a 6 shooter knuckle for $360. you can buy the D44 knuckles ready to go for the same price or find the flat tops and do it yourself. I flattened mine with a belt sander and built my own arms, been on the truck without fail for 10 years. "- Toys have massive brakes, big as 3/4 ton 8bolt D44." Yup toys have large 6 piston calipers, and man do they like to seize one or three individual pistons which means you have to replace the caliper, $90. The rotor is large diameter, but thin. Replacement on a waggy 44 with one nice big 1/2 ton caliper $35 and in stock anywhere. Thick vented rotor. "- Toys are a treat to set up gears in, diff on the bench, adjustable backlash. D44 are whores with the spacers." All's I can say is PFFFT, ya"ll is nuts. Lets start with pinion depth, on the yota 3rd member when I pick a shim I have to recreate the backlash with those dam adjusters every time I move the pinion. PITA. With the 44, I move a shim on the carrier bearing, cake. I use set up bearings, easy. Then when trying to get the carrier bearing preload correct, again those dam adjusters are a PITA. With the 44 I just put back in what I got out, no question it's correct. And lets not forget, the dam crush collar on the yota, that has to be replaced with a solid collar or it will fail under abuse. D44 has a shimmed set up factory. "- the narrowness can be accounted for with basically free mod of IFS hubs and\or wheelspacers, the wheelbearings don't mind (they are huge, D60 size) My buggy WMS is front is at 59.5, rear is 60. That's the wide rear. So it does match." Did not know about the ifs thing, cool. As far as wheel bearings go the waggy 44 comes with 3/4 Chevy bearings stock, same set up on my YJ never put a set in since I built the axle 10 years ago. " Getting hard to find? Not really, you just have to look. no worse than a D44. Perhaps harder to find in good shape, but I could tell you a story of getting free ones in awesome shape and putting them under the CJ. I have just as many people looking for my D44 parts as I do Scott wanting one of my front axles. Might be different in NB, but here, Toys might be a bit easier to find, or maybe its because I don't look for D44's anymore. Used Toy front hub-to-hub in 1/2 decent shape commands $250" Definitely easier to pick op old Jeep, Ford,Chevy parts here in NB than Yota. " WEIGHT, in capitals! lol A superior design can maintain strength with less materials. I could lift my trussed Toy housing over my head, need two guys to move a D44 housing." Weight, hmm don't think so. You take a trussed Yota axle from bell to bell empty and a Waggy 3/8th wall D44 empty, I'd bet there cannot be more than 30lbs in the difference. And I don't agree it is a superior design, those bells are a pain in the but to put seals in and maintain, I cannot see the R&P unless I pull the axels and unbolt the whole 3rd member and those longfields are a PITA to get back in. D44 I just pop the cover and take a peek. Jan You never met my bro but, he worked at Toyota for 25 years. He has a back yard garage, which I spent years at. Mostly toy pick ups, land cruisers, 4 runners ect. For vehicles that are soo awesome lol they sure broke a lot. I see those FT bell seals in my sleep, rear Axel bearings and seals, rear leaf springs and park brake assemblies. So ya I have seen a few. Each axle has it's strengths and weaknesses, all I was saying is there were other options. If he head a yota axle in his position, easy choice, but he does not.
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Creepy
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Post by Creepy on Sept 10, 2013 7:02:25 GMT -4
Yeah, I see your points. Didn't know about the Toy shop experience. I think you are wrong about the weights of the housings, but the other stuff has merit. But like I said at the top, this choice is more about just playing with a new toy. Its not really about the tech or being sick of Dana gear. (there isn't a Dana front sitting around he can use either, a housing needs to be found)) At the mention of a couple of negatives about the Toys, I can respond with this - I'm running the TG one-piece ball-seals, they were pita to install, but look like they won't leak like the felts. My front rotors are Land Cruiser vented, 4 piston IFS calipers, and the rears are 88 Chev truck vented. Big stuff, no skinny ass SFA rotors. Never had a sticky piston, but yeah, they cost $90. The rear Monte Carlo calipers cost $20 tho. I REALLY like setting up the diff on the bench, rather than under the rig. I don't have setup bearings or good bearing pullers, so I prefer the Toy ring gear set-up procedures. No special tools. I moved my fill plugs so the ring gear can be viewed without removing diff. can't see pinion tho. I give RCV's a slight 'less of a prick' that Longs to install/remove. Anyway, you asked what the biiiig deal was! lol Nothing really, just gives something to talk about. Me and Scott had fun last night, my buggy is on the lift out his place, and he got a real good look at the front axle setup, after doing research for a week. Just having some fun with different stuff!
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Post by chefted on Sept 10, 2013 7:35:56 GMT -4
No prob, you just gave me an opportunity to rebut, the "Toyota's are awesome people". I hate Toyota truck no and ifs or buts. And here is why, a Jeep tj and a Tacoma on the lifts here at work. Both getting a 4"lift, on the toy the lower cam bushing always seize, replacement is 350 for bushings bolts and cam slieves, and three days to get. The Jeep lowers almost always come out, and the kit comes with control arms complete with bushings no prob, I keep building. I Cringe when I see a toy in the parking lot. Sorry for the highjack Scott, this can be deleted.
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'Roach
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Post by 'Roach on Sept 11, 2013 8:21:42 GMT -4
I got to weigh in here on a few items: Dana 44 versus Toyota 8" -Trunion Bearings - toyota knuckles have bearings instead of ball joints. Much stronger system, and if that's not strong enough, then a bushing system similar to a kingpin is available for an upgrade -Knuckles - I've swapped both a D44 and a Yota axle in the field, Toyota is easier. Remove the 4 top steering arm bolts and slide the whole knuckle off with the breaks as an assembly. Yes, you have to leave the outer snap ring off to do this. -Gears - with the v-6 gears, the bearings inside are bigger than D60. I know this because I borrowed Rico's D60 bearing remover and it was too small All that being said, I understand why you cringe seeing a yota come in. IFS just sucks, and Toyota stopped using their good green thread locker/anti-seize long ago. Stuff just unbolts easily from 80's yotas. Not so much the 1989 and newer stuff... Its funny though, I know these axles so well now that I can rebuild them from memory. I'm working on Jeep stuff so I learn something new
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Creepy
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Post by Creepy on Sept 11, 2013 14:20:24 GMT -4
I can access the Longs by removing a dust cap, c-clip, , caliper bolts, 8 spindle bolts. No wheelbearings! really slick. Or like Mike said, but a bit easier with drive flanges - I can remove a dust cap, c-clip, then remove the entire knuckle/caliper/wheelbearing assembly by pulling the bottom cap. (4 bolts) some neat tricks to a fast teardown.
Wheelbearings cannot be avoided on a d44 to access a broken u-joint. full dis-assembly and beating of spindle to access.
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rue
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Post by rue on Sept 12, 2013 6:06:48 GMT -4
There ya go Scotty, we have ur tread high jacked, and plugged up with a bunch of 44 vs toy tech. LOL
Pick ur poison.
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Post by brunner on Sept 12, 2013 20:20:48 GMT -4
i love the budget builds so in the true spirit of fun build the shit out of that lol
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The Garagemahal
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Post by The Garagemahal on Sept 19, 2013 19:11:57 GMT -4
Waggy 44's are hens teeth , I found 4 toy axles without even trying . I made a great trade with Rue for a complete and in great shape ,toy front axle , for my d300 . ( I think I got the better side of the deal , Thanks Rue ) So , its settled Ted , toys . Thread is not ruined , no need to delete anything I look forward to working on some different stuff . Build is gonna be slow at first , Until I gather the parts I need to start Just gotta get it here to start cleaning the axle up , Its still on the back of Jan's Dodge Oh and PS I have a lean to the toy / d44 debate . Jan broke a pinion on his rig last weekend , We pulled the tires , brakes and axle shafts , pulled the third out and bolted another back in . 1 1/2 hours later we were wheeling . I would have hated to have to set up D44 gears in the woods with the limited tools we had on hand ( even if you had everything you needed ) +1 toys
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Creepy
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Post by Creepy on Sept 19, 2013 19:16:26 GMT -4
I'll drop that front off on the weekend, been busy working. Stop after work tommorrow if you want. I'm done tonight.
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The Garagemahal
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Post by The Garagemahal on Sept 19, 2013 19:21:02 GMT -4
No rush , Firewood winning weekend for me , I'll be a stack'n here all weekend
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Creepy
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Post by Creepy on Sept 19, 2013 19:24:40 GMT -4
10-4 little doggie.
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Creepy
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Post by Creepy on Sept 20, 2013 4:29:51 GMT -4
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skinypedalmasher
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YJ..stock axles 35"Pitbull Rockers..305H.O motor...700R4..What will break first?
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Post by skinypedalmasher on Sept 20, 2013 14:50:21 GMT -4
Com'on...where are all the board ladies..not one offer to help Scottie with his Wood...lmao..i can't believe nobody made one comment..hahahahahahahah
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justajeep
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Post by justajeep on Sept 20, 2013 17:32:16 GMT -4
I thought it was kind of early for the winter crankiness to start, though I guess the winter could bring it on. Anyone see the footage from the accident on the Bedford Highway this morning? I only caught a glimpse of the truck, but it looked like Scott's Toy destroyed!
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