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Post by dartjeep on Oct 24, 2013 17:44:50 GMT -4
You would know if it's the actuator switch. Mine broke today in the ON position. All dash lights on, fuel pump running, etc. You can feel the difference in the key. No clicking when you turn it. Nada. You would know. Have to pull fuses to stop the jeep from running, etc.
I put the key in to satisfy the security thing and jumped the starter across the little terminal and the POS terminal (red wire from battery) with a screwdriver. Started right up. Drove it home.
edit... mine is an 02 but should work the same as yours.
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Creepy
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Post by Creepy on Oct 24, 2013 18:20:48 GMT -4
Ok I did the jump test but it cranked on the small post and the big post that has the wire from the starter. Not the one that has the battery cable connected. I checked the voltage in the small terminal and got 12 volts right away but it dropped to 11.21 right away. So if I read the posts right this is looking like the ignition thing? How do I fix this? I don't understand the bold part. Try to describe it better. Any amount of voltage to the small terminal when the key is held to start postion means that system is working. The key/coloum tumbler is probably fine. The drop to 11.21V (while cranking?) sounds like a bad battery/bad cables again. Or batt isn't charged up. Put a voltmeter on the posts and tell us the voltage. (they cost $10-$20) Check the batt voltage while cranking too, its very telling. You need to see at least 12.4V
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eastcoastcam
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Post by eastcoastcam on Oct 24, 2013 18:49:07 GMT -4
You would know if it's the actuator switch. Mine broke today in the ON position. All dash lights on, fuel pump running, etc. You can feel the difference in the key. No clicking when you turn it. Nada. You would know. Have to pull fuses to stop the jeep from running, etc. I put the key in to satisfy the security thing and jumped the starter across the little terminal and the POS terminal (red wire from battery) with a screwdriver. Started right up. Drove it home. edit... mine is an 02 but should work the same as yours. Darren, if you remove the actuator and reinstall the ignition switch, then put your lock cylinder back in place for your key, you can start and turn off your Jeep with a screwdriver directly into the ignition switch. I did that for 3 weeks until I finally got around to installing the new actuator. In mine, it never felt any different turning the key after the pin broke...
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eastcoastcam
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Post by eastcoastcam on Oct 24, 2013 21:11:13 GMT -4
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Big Willy
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Post by Big Willy on Oct 24, 2013 22:32:52 GMT -4
Thanks James. Jan, sorry for the confusion. When I first checked the voltage at the small terminal it was 12.15 then it dropped to 11.21. I posted before realizing I didn't have a proper ground. So I re-checked again and it stayed around 12.12 - 12.15. On the battery terminals it's 12.44 then when I turn the key it drops to 12.25. Before I did all of this I pulled the battery, cleaned it up and used a fine grit sandpaper and made the posts shine. Same thing for the inside ring on each cable. I also used the sandpaper on the battery cable end for the starter. The solenoid is new so all those connections are good as well. All of my fuses are in good shape and the relays are good too. When I turn the key the action is smooth and deliberate the same as it has always been. I also tried jumping the small terminal to the terminal with the braided wire that's connects to the starter and it turned the fan slowly. Then I tapped the starter with a hammer as I jumped it and the starter motor sped up but not to the speed needed to start it up. Then at that time in the spot opposite of the small terminal there is a ball of solder and it all if a sudden spit out a small stream of gas. A hole formed in the centre of it and what looks like a little wire is in the centre. So I just might have cooked my solenoid? This aside; if I understand you correctly it sounds like my problem is still my starter. Would I be correct?
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Big Willy
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Post by Big Willy on Oct 24, 2013 22:46:33 GMT -4
One other thing that I noticed was that in the fuse panel behind the glove box. Fuse #20 - Transmission: Manual - Clutch Interlock Switch Bypass Auto-matic - Ignition Starter Circuit was missing. This has not been there since I bought the jeep last year so I'm not sure if that's an issue? Fuse #4 is also missing but that's the Door Switch Defeat and I would rather not listen to that annoying door chime, lol.
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The Garagemahal
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Post by The Garagemahal on Oct 25, 2013 8:07:02 GMT -4
Fuse 20 is for bypassing the clutch lock out , in my jeep , I pulled it so I can start it in gear I didn't think the fuse pulling worked in the 01-02 and up jeeps
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Creepy
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Post by Creepy on Oct 25, 2013 14:08:13 GMT -4
Thanks James. Jan, sorry for the confusion. When I first checked the voltage at the small terminal it was 12.15 then it dropped to 11.21. I posted before realizing I didn't have a proper ground. So I re-checked again and it stayed around 12.12 - 12.15. On the battery terminals it's 12.44 then when I turn the key it drops to 12.25. Before I did all of this I pulled the battery, cleaned it up and used a fine grit sandpaper and made the posts shine. Same thing for the inside ring on each cable. I also used the sandpaper on the battery cable end for the starter. The solenoid is new so all those connections are good as well. All of my fuses are in good shape and the relays are good too. When I turn the key the action is smooth and deliberate the same as it has always been. I also tried jumping the small terminal to the terminal with the braided wire that's connects to the starter and it turned the fan slowly. Then I tapped the starter with a hammer as I jumped it and the starter motor sped up but not to the speed needed to start it up. Then at that time in the spot opposite of the small terminal there is a ball of solder and it all if a sudden spit out a small stream of gas. A hole formed in the centre of it and what looks like a little wire is in the centre. So I just might have cooked my solenoid? This aside; if I understand you correctly it sounds like my problem is still my starter. Would I be correct? Well allllright then. This is what was needed to diagnose! good cables, batt seems charged enough, 12V to small terminal with key in start, fan turns when starting (albeit slowly) so solenoid is working......I'd say you have a bad starter motor. The solenoid sizzle was probably the motor contacts getting hot from resistance in the motor windings.
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Big Willy
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Post by Big Willy on Nov 1, 2013 21:37:07 GMT -4
...And the final answer is. A broken ignition actuator assembly. It must be an epidemic, lol. I ended up buying a brand new starter for $210 taxes in and hooked it up. No change. So I checked out Dartjeep's thread about the actuator and voila! That's what was wrong, lol. I then called up Parts Source, and using my son's name I was able to get the new part for $55, vice $79. It took about 45 min with me watching the video on my iPhone, lol. I used a small precision screw driver and a small hammer to nock out the tamper proof pins and used a regular T10 torx. Best thing of all is that my original starter is still good and I was able to return the new one because there wasn't a mark on it. in the picture below my broken one is in the foreground and the pice that came off.
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Post by dartjeep on Nov 1, 2013 21:48:18 GMT -4
Damn sneaky thing eh. Most people are saying they can't tell the difference when it's broke. With mine, I knew right away what happened...no clicks as it turned. Glad it's fixed!
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Creepy
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Post by Creepy on Nov 1, 2013 21:56:39 GMT -4
Why did starter get 12V signal to start, if that thing was busted? And why did it turn over slow?
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Big Willy
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Post by Big Willy on Nov 1, 2013 22:19:22 GMT -4
I couldn't tell the difference in the key either? Jan I'm not sure? The tests all pointed to the starter but the brand new one wouldn't work until the actuator was fixed. I then swapped my old one back in and it started right away. Now if I could only get my key to stay in the ignition on bumpy trails, lol.
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eastcoastcam
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Post by eastcoastcam on Nov 1, 2013 22:22:12 GMT -4
Right on, Chris! Good to hear you got it fixed !
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Creepy
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Post by Creepy on Nov 1, 2013 22:46:36 GMT -4
Yeah, glad you got it fixed, but -1 for the internetz trouble-shooting pointing to starter.
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The Garagemahal
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Post by The Garagemahal on Nov 2, 2013 7:22:21 GMT -4
I couldn't tell the difference in the key either? Jan I'm not sure? The tests all pointed to the starter but the brand new one wouldn't work until the actuator was fixed. I then swapped my old one back in and it started right away. Now if I could only get my key to stay in the ignition on bumpy trails, lol. Is your key wore out ? If not then the tumbler is gone , you would need a new one
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