Welding help ...

[Deleted]

I got a new Hobart 140 mig welder a few months, before I had an Hobart 110, both only run on 110 house current, both never been hooked up to gas, just using 0.30" flux core wire, problem im having with the new 140 welder, it f*cks up feeding the wire into the nozzle, see this picture below. if it does it once, it'll do it 5 times in a row....at all different times, at first contact and sometime in middle of laying down a bead...
can anyone help? I know I need to spend the money and get gas and it will be a cleaner weld...is that the major issue im having.?
look close at the picture and you can see the wire messed up...

all the info that came with the welder didn't say what to set the dial for line tension too, I tried last night adjusting that but tight and loose made no difference...
should I just give up on flux core and go get tri-mix seeing how all the welding I do is indoors in my garage?

[C Monster]

is the contact tip to small for the wire

[Deleted]

nope, everything came with the welder.

[Deleted]

is it just cause line speed was too fast and wire came in contact with a dirty area and that force went back thru the nozzle...seems so...piss off...I wasted over 60ft of wire off that roll...

[Deleted]

I even rented a sand blaster yesterday to sand blast the area, so the work area had to be clean..

[C Monster]

it's call birdnesting
WIRE DELIVERY
Regardless if you are using one-pound spools, large drums, or larger coils of wire, the mechanical feedability of the wire plays an important role in determining arc quality and weldability. You should begin troubleshooting the system by ensuring the wire is not obstructed anywhere along its path from the spool tension to the contact tip and everywhere in-between.

Hub Tension
It is important not to over-tighten the hub tension, which allows the spool of wire to turn. On a large drum of wire, this function may be served by a mechanism that traces around the spool. The hub tension is simply a means to keep the wire from de-coiling off of the spool when wire feeding stops. This should be just tight enough to keep the wire from de-coiling when you stop feeding a full spool at maximum wire feed speed. Over-tightening this will force the drive motor to work harder just to get the wire off of the spool and will lead to welding problems.

Check Drive Roll Pressure
Drive roll pressure is a very common problem in wire welding. Too loose and you have no wire feeding into the puddle. Too tight and you can crush the wire and flake off the coating, deform the wire, wear out the rolls, and damage the motor.

Flaked coating will cause these small flakes to enter the liner, further limiting the simple feedability of the wire to the puddle. Deformed wire will wear grooves into the contact tip limiting electrical conductivity and also causing poor feedability. Wear out the grooved surfaces of the rolls and you have poor friction to feed the wire properly. Over-tightened drive roll tension causes all of these problems in addition to placing excessive pressure on the drive shaft that could wear out a gear box or drive motor by misaligning it.

There is no cut-and-dry answer as to the exact pressure needed to ensure proper drive roll pressure. Drive roll tension should be adjusted so that it is not too tight, but not too loose. Start with the drive roll pressure very loose. Increase the pressure only until it is very difficult to stop the wire from feeding out of the contact tip. Use a pliers or block of wood to try and stop the wire from feeding. Go perhaps one-half of a turn beyond this point. When the wire is actually stopped, the drive rolls should spin on the wire and no bird nesting should occur.

Check Drive Roll Alignment
The drive rolls can be adjusted side-to-side to ensure they are in line with the inlet guide to the GMAW gun.

Check Inlet Guides
The inlet guides should be of the proper size for the wire used. They should not have grooves in them – often caused by misalignment or improper size.

Check Liner Condition
The gun liner should be the proper size for the wire being used and should also be clean and free of dust and debris. Over-tensioned wire will flake off and place excessive particles into the liner, clogging it up. Using special wire lubricants can also cause the wire to become ‘wet’ and dust can collect on the wire dragging it into the liner as well.

Wire manufacturers have already properly prepared the surface of the wire for maximum feedability and adding or even subtracting that can affect the weld quality. If you insist on using something to “lubricate” or “wipe off” the wire before it goes into the system, a cotton cloth with a clothes pin would be best so that there is no contamination of the wire and dust cannot collect on a ‘wet” surface. Liners are wear items and should be replaced on a regular schedule.

Contact Tip Condition
Many times feeding problems can be fixed by replacing the contact tip. The contact tip can get clogged up from spatter or from touching it to the weld puddle. If the wire is wearing grooves into the contact tip you need to check your drive roll tension.

[Creepy]

HHmm.

First off - I'd say its unrelated to flux vs gas. You have a wire feed issue which can happen to either type of process.

So the wire is bunching up trying to go into the whip sleeve?

1 - Cman's suggestion - tip size. Make sure its same as wire size. The tip holes are different diameters for different wire size. Remove the tip for trouble-shooting feed issues. (eliminate the variable)
2 - Make sure the wire is in the correct feed-wheel groove. I can sorta make out .030" on your drive wheel, you are probably aware but worth mentioning.
3 - wire looks low on the spool. Sometimes the way its wrapped makes it feed like shit at the start or end of the spool.
4 - You might have to throw away the spool if its bird-nested. It may feed good, then bad, then spring forward and stuff a bunch of wire into the machine and its bunching up. Its tricky to get perfect.
If the spool spun on you at any point and came unwound, this causes feed issues, you might want to chuck it and get a new one.
5 - big wire-rolls feed better than little wire-rolls. The big rolls feed the wire flat into the drive-wheel instead of at that steep angle.
6 - bunching at the whip inlet often means a whip liner problem or tight tip, rather than a feed issue. My Hobart 135 does not like the whip to be bent much coming out of the machine. You can get a big spring to keep it straight for about 8" past the control panel.
7 - Note the Hobart and Miller machines use the same whip, it is a very common unit. There is probably a Miller emblem right on the grip.
8 - Remove the tip, and feed a ton of wire thru the machine with the door open, and watch what is happening. Yes, you will waste a bunch of wire. Cost of set-up.
9 - Adjust the feed-wheel tension so the wire slips instead of bunching if you have problems. I'd say its a bit tight, imo its preferable to slip on the wire rather than to bunch it up.
10 - If you get thru all of that, and try a new wire-roll, and it still does it, replace the whip liner. (pretty sure you can just get a new liner, the time I replaced mine, I got a whole new whip because the trigger switch was bad too)
11 - forgot something - wire inlet guide and that steep angle might have a big groove wore in it. (won't cause bunching tho)
12 - buy good wire. Lincoln works good.
13 - check polarity on machine work leads for flux vs gas. They reverse.
14 - I use disposable earplugs with a slice in them to clean the wire coming off the spool, ahead of the inlet guide in front of the drive-wheels. Leave them there and the wires passes thru and gets wiped off.

hope that helps. Some is just common info I'm sure you are aware of, but figured I'd post a complete run-down.

Good luck, post back with results. I have basically the same machine, earlier version, it has a million miles on 'er and still going strong. 2nd or third whip.

[Deleted]

thanks guys, I forgot to mention I ran out of wire last night...so spool was very low however it is a new welder and came with that spool and did it since day one when I got it...and my old welder the Hobart 110 never did this in the 5 years I had that one....
i'll go get a Lincoln spool today and some new tips..

[C Monster]

Do you live by a welding shop? , there in house wire it's a lot cheaper
I have to dive a hour one way to get my wire and it's still a big savings

[justajeep]

On my Hobart 210, one groove on the feed roller is serrated. If you use that groove, it won't allow the wire to slip if it needs to, and it will bird nest any time there is resistance.

[Deleted]

yes there is a groove for the wire on the roller.

[dan]

are you new to welding? you aren't making shitty blobs on the end of the tip that are causing it to burn back into the tip and stick, or running the wire feed too slow, are you?

take the tip completely off, remove all tension from the feed wheels, and pull wire through, see if there is tension. cut off wasted wire, try again with tip installed. see if there is any difference.
it is possible your liner is crushed. Have you stepped on it or driven over it?
make absolute sure the tips are for .030 or bigger.


My lincoln has never had that happen. the grooves in my feed wheel are smooth, even at the tightest setting the wire can slip.

[Deleted]

picked up new Lincoln wire and new tips and just finished up what welding I had left to do and had no issues this time.
I took some tension off the spool this time... that might be helping.

not new to welding but no pro that's for sure... plus a very crappy Carquest $30 helmet doesn't help much....

[93grand]

I run a .035 tip with .030 flux wire

[Creepy]

Apr 17, 2014 14:41:09 GMT -4 @forsythe said:

yes there is a groove for the wire on the roller.

The grooves are sized for wire size, look at the stampings on the roller. What Alan is saying is that one of his is serrated, and has a tendancy to not let the wire slip if it has to.

you kinda got bombed with info there - read it all again and let it sink in.

Glad to hear its working better tho.