Big Willy
Jeeper
My idea of a symphony? Six pistons playing a tune my right foot tells it.
Posts: 1,510
|
Post by Big Willy on Oct 21, 2013 22:26:03 GMT -4
On Saturday durning the night run I shut the Rubi off and then it wouldn't start. We jumped the terminals and heard a whirring sound but no crank. We got it started by popping the clutch and made it out of the trail and home. Thinking it was the solenoid I replaced it with a new one. Still nothing when I turn the key and just a whirring sound when I jump the terminals. I then disassembled the starter and cleaned it and checked the magnets and bushings and everything was in good shape. Put it all back together and the same results. I'm starting to think that it isn't the starter at all but something else. Anyone have any ideas? Never had a problem until this incident.
|
|
Old Yeller
Jeeper
Its... sitting next to my garage. Poor girl.
Posts: 2,890
|
Post by Old Yeller on Oct 21, 2013 22:39:38 GMT -4
If the starter is spinning, but not engaging, then it has to be the solenoid, or the voltage feed/wiring going to it. If you use a small jumper lead, you can force 12v onto the solenoid contact, to see if it snaps into place. If it does, you need to work back from there.
Rob D
|
|
Creepy
Administrator
Dartmouth
Posts: 18,718
|
Post by Creepy on Oct 22, 2013 6:52:48 GMT -4
What is the battery voltage? Shut off and running, please.
cables tight and clean? (looking at them and deciding they are fine doesn't work, take them off and clean/tighten)
|
|
Big Willy
Jeeper
My idea of a symphony? Six pistons playing a tune my right foot tells it.
Posts: 1,510
|
Post by Big Willy on Oct 22, 2013 6:53:45 GMT -4
I have a brand new solenoid on the starter now and it's still not working. When I turn the key the same thing happens as if you don't press the clutch. All cables and connections are clean. Had that problem before and it's now the first thing I do with electrical problems.
|
|
justajeep
Moderator
Valley - VP
Bear River, NS
Posts: 7,214
|
Post by justajeep on Oct 22, 2013 6:57:27 GMT -4
The starter motor gets energized by the solenoid engaging, so if the motor is spinning, the solenoid is good. Sounds like the starter drive is gone.
|
|
justajeep
Moderator
Valley - VP
Bear River, NS
Posts: 7,214
|
Post by justajeep on Oct 22, 2013 7:02:11 GMT -4
I guess you didn't mean the whirring sound was coming from your starter.
Where are you jumping the terminals? If you jump them at the starter and you have voltage there, the starter will work unless it's bad.
|
|
Old Yeller
Jeeper
Its... sitting next to my garage. Poor girl.
Posts: 2,890
|
Post by Old Yeller on Oct 22, 2013 8:46:05 GMT -4
Manually energizing the solenoid should crank the starter as well. The solenoid throws outward the drive gear, and simultaneously allows battery voltage to drive the starter.
Rob D
|
|
Big Willy
Jeeper
My idea of a symphony? Six pistons playing a tune my right foot tells it.
Posts: 1,510
|
Post by Big Willy on Oct 23, 2013 0:16:59 GMT -4
I have installed a new solenoid and a starter that is know to run and I still get nothing when I turn the key. It's the same response I got before this happened when I wouldn't press the clutch when starting the jeep. I'm now at a loss as to what could be wrong. Anyone have ideas as to what I can check next?
|
|
justajeep
Moderator
Valley - VP
Bear River, NS
Posts: 7,214
|
Post by justajeep on Oct 23, 2013 6:34:14 GMT -4
Again, where are you jumping the terminals to try and start it?
|
|
Big Willy
Jeeper
My idea of a symphony? Six pistons playing a tune my right foot tells it.
Posts: 1,510
|
Post by Big Willy on Oct 23, 2013 6:48:05 GMT -4
I was jumping with the two bigger terminals on the solenoid. One the power from the battery and the other connect to the starter with an inch long covered wire. As for the whirring sound it sounded like it was coming from the starter.
|
|
Creepy
Administrator
Dartmouth
Posts: 18,718
|
Post by Creepy on Oct 23, 2013 11:46:29 GMT -4
Alan is on the right track. Yer doing it wrong, jumping the wrong terminals. Or sounds like it anyway.
You need to jump the big constant 12V lug on the starter to the solenoid small terminal.
It sounds like the the wire to the solenoid small terminal is not getting 12V when you hit the key. That needed to be checked as one of the first things, before any mechanical disassembly. Get friend to hold key in start position, check for 12V at starter small solenoid terminal.
If no 12V, start tracing wire back, check fuses, clutch switch, etc.
To test your starter on the ground - 1. get jumper cables. 2. ground the starter case to batt. neg. 3. 12V to big constant lug on starter. 4. Now the important part - jump 12V to small terminal on solenoid. 5. drive should jump out, and starter spin.
On the vehicle - sequence of events in starting - 1. turn key, 12V goes to small solenoid terminal (probably your problem) 2. this energizes the solenoid, which drives it forward. The starter drive gear gets pushed out to engage the flywheel 3. When Solenoid is forward, brass contacts are made, to spin starter motor. 4. Jeep engine rolls over.
Hope this helps. Its not hard, but we've all been there.
|
|
Creepy
Administrator
Dartmouth
Posts: 18,718
|
Post by Creepy on Oct 23, 2013 12:02:32 GMT -4
While we are on the topic - Ever notice a hole in the solenoid case, that allows you to stick a screwdriver in there? Manual start! If you have a bad solenoid - stick a screwdriver in the hole, push the solenoid to contact and the starter will function. Don't hold the drive gear against flywheel too long, be aware you have to yank the screwdriver out pretty quick. With the key in ignition, it should try to start.
Am I crazy, or can this be done? I can't remember if it was on CJ's or 4.0's, or something else I owned.
|
|
justajeep
Moderator
Valley - VP
Bear River, NS
Posts: 7,214
|
Post by justajeep on Oct 23, 2013 16:48:03 GMT -4
Yup, you're just energizing the motor by going across the 2 big terminals. Do like Jan said and go across 12+ to the small terminal, I bet it will work then!
It's probably not a wiring problem, it's probably the plastic piece that breaks between the ignition tumbler and switch. JP just had the same problem with his, there is a thread on here about it too.
|
|
coolwind1
Moderator
President - Halifax Chapter
Posts: 1,318
|
Post by coolwind1 on Oct 23, 2013 16:58:53 GMT -4
OK, well now I am confused. On the trail I crossed the 2 poles on the solenoid and could hear the starter spin but not engage. The key was in the run position. I have done this with vehicles in the past and have had them start. When trying to start the jeep with the key only, all that could be heard was a very faint click at the fuse box. All the fuses seemed to be fine. Also, if crossing the poles on the solenoid caused the starter to spin but not engage, it was getting power from the battery. Anyway after reading the postings above I am curious to see what ends up being the cause of the no starting jeep. Still thinking it is a faulty starter. Trying what Jan said would work though with testing the starter out of the jeep with a battery. Guess I'll have to wait and see what the result is :-)
|
|
|
Post by donsjeep on Oct 23, 2013 17:04:57 GMT -4
OK, well now I am confused. On the trail I crossed the 2 poles on the solenoid and could hear the starter spin but not engage. The key was in the run position. I have done this with vehicles in the past and have had them start. When trying to start the jeep with the key only, all that could be heard was a very faint click at the fuse box. All the fuses seemed to be fine. Also, if crossing the poles on the solenoid caused the starter to spin but not engage, it was getting power from the battery. Anyway after reading the postings above I am curious to see what ends up being the cause of the no starting jeep. Still thinking it is a faulty starter. Trying what Jan said would work though with testing the starter out of the jeep with a battery. Guess I'll have to wait and see what the result is :-) But didn't he switch starters with one known to work?
|
|