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Post by itsakeeper on Jul 29, 2009 15:31:44 GMT -4
well if I did borrow someones trailer and something happened I personally would feel obligated to repair it the same as borrowing tools that may break during use
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Big G
Hardcore
Posts: 5,146
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Post by Big G on Jul 29, 2009 15:38:02 GMT -4
well if I did borrow someones trailer and something happened I personally would feel obligated to repair it the same as borrowing tools that may break during use LOL, been there. Borrowed my neighbor's 4-wheeler... rolled it and cost me $1600. Felt pretty dumb considering if I'd doubled that cost I'd have a decent one of my own. I felt bad for the inconvenience, he was worried about me being hurt. He never had to ask me to pay him. That's the way it SHOULD be. Too bad everyone has to worry so much about being sued.
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Dugie
Jeeper
Posts: 1,606
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Post by Dugie on Jul 29, 2009 20:10:42 GMT -4
well if I did borrow someones trailer and something happened I personally would feel obligated to repair it the same as borrowing tools that may break during use Agree 100%, I am exactly the same, as is most people on this board, but then there is the downtime of not having it because it's broken or being repaired! People used to ask to take my R1 for a burn, I would say "Sure, you give me what it's worth in cash right now and you can giver hell that way when you flip the thing letting out the clutch in 1st gear I can simply go get myself another"
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Post by tothewall on Jul 29, 2009 20:55:26 GMT -4
well if I did borrow someones trailer and something happened I personally would feel obligated to repair it the same as borrowing tools that may break during use Agree 100%, I am exactly the same, as is most people on this board, but then there is the downtime of not having it because it's broken or being repaired! People used to ask to take my R1 for a burn, I would say "Sure, you give me what it's worth in cash right now and you can giver hell that way when you flip the thing letting out the clutch in 1st gear I can simply go get myself another" RE post. LOL
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Dewie
Jeeper
Junk Lord
Yeah thats right - I drive a Lada :P
Posts: 1,249
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Post by Dewie on Jul 30, 2009 7:42:51 GMT -4
I too operate on the "you break it, you fix it, or replace it" principal... Yeah it sucks when you're out a tool or something for a bit, but 90% of the time when stuff doesn't break it is very gratifying to help someone out.
There ARE certain things which I don't like doing so much, driving certain people's cars/bikes etc are up on the list. Certain friends I have no problem driving their gear, but these friends I've helped install engines, rip cars apart, and basically do everything to the vehicles with. When something breaks because I helped wear it out pre-maturely I have no problem lending a hand - and it's great to be lent a hand when I need it as well.
Wow - holy off topic - sorry!
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Post by DamnJeep on Jul 30, 2009 9:55:50 GMT -4
Wow - holy off topic - sorry! Alright back on topic. I called my own insurance company, Economical, and asked them this question Len brought up. The underwriter told me that if what ever I was hauling on the trailer could be subject to it's own policy, which means it could ba a car, truck, jeep, 4 wheeler, boat or what ever, and it DIDN'T have its own insurance and there was an accident they would not cover it. The trucks insurance was extended only to the trailer but if what you are towing becomes seperated (kinda grey area here which did the damage the trailer or the rig? I can guess which way an insurance company would go ) then you are on the hook for any and all damages etc. I can loan out the trailer to someone and their insurance would cover it but not any uninsured "insurable" on it. The person who borrowed the trailer would be screwed. Also I can use my trailer to help someone move furniture, wood etc that does not normally have its own policy and all would be fine. So if its your own rig on your trailer OR someone elses trailer and its insured you are covered. I'm only guessing here as I'm waiting another call from my insurance but I "think" if you are indeed towing someone elses rig and its insured then the towed rig's insurance would cover it in case of an accident. I want to clarify this a bit because what Len said is it doesn't matter it the other person's rig has insurance you are screwed if there is an accident. But it was a bit different that what I was told.
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Post by tothewall on Jul 30, 2009 10:04:40 GMT -4
I just called my guy again for clarification. Details to follow.
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Post by itsakeeper on Jul 30, 2009 10:21:55 GMT -4
so to sum this up: If you don't have insurance you are screwed, but if you have insurance the insurance you have will ensure that you get screwed
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Post by tothewall on Jul 30, 2009 10:30:08 GMT -4
Pretty well.
Basically, if you haul a vehicle that you do not have title to on your trailer and something happens with it and someone is injured, you are going to live in a box because you will be sued and will lose everything when the injured party or thier family sues you.
You could fight it, but who would run out of money first? You or the Insurance company?
Its too bad. The insurance companies have taken away the ability of friends to help friends out in the real world but say that IF you want to help, you can... But it will cost you 1000's of $$$ to have commercial insurance to do it, and WHO can afford that?
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Post by DamnJeep on Jul 30, 2009 11:27:19 GMT -4
Basically, if you haul a vehicle that you do not have title to on your trailer and something happens with it and someone is injured, you are going to live in a box because you will be sued and will lose everything when the injured party or thier family sues you. Then I take it it does not matter if the other person's vehicle is insured or not. You are screwed one way or the other. BUT you still need insurance on your own rig being towed to be covered. I called for a quote on my buggy. I can hardly wait to hear how much this is gonna cost me . Yeah. You are right. No longer want to help others out if this keeps up.
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Post by tothewall on Jul 30, 2009 11:31:19 GMT -4
Well... Here it is after a LONG conversation...
Your Jeep on your trailer towed by your tow rig...Falls off and is damaged/causes injury. Covered.
Your Jeep on someone elses trailer... Falls off and is damaged/causes injury. Covered.
Your tow rig and trailer... Someone elses Jeep falls off and is damaged. Covered under THEIR insurance. Their insurance company can come after you because of your shoddy tie down job. Their Jeep causes injury... You are in a grey area and for all intents and purposes are screwed.
It is not SPECIFICALLY forbidden, but you are doing something "outside normal usage" which puts you into a grey area that you CAN fight, but it would be expensive, and if the insurance company is facing 100's of 1000's of $$$ in claims of liability, they will fight to the bitter end.
IF they lose and have to pay... When you come to renew you will be dropped and a Facility client for the foreseeable future.
My guy says that it is NOT worth taking the chance. In theory, the accident could happen and the insurance company would be forced to cover you, but in the real world things are not that cut and dry. There are always negative consequences to you when the insurance company pays out.
He apologizes for any confusion, but telling me NOT to do it is his way of telling me to not play the odds. Chances are HUGE that it would not be covered, but it is not absolute.
Now on another note I also was informed that if you roll and write your vehicle off while wheeling or run it into someone else or a tree or a rock, it is counted as a collision and would be covered under your collision and/or comprehensive insurance. Apparently WHERE the collision happens is not important. Someone was covered as he successfully argued that damage from a roll into a ditch is covered so off road is off road no matter how FAR off the road you are. I was unaware of this and was very happy to learn it.
***Edit for clarity***
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Creepy
Administrator
Dartmouth
Posts: 18,718
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Post by Creepy on Jul 30, 2009 11:45:24 GMT -4
please clairify the the first 5 sentances by using tow rig and Jeep. "rig" makes the info unusable. We have to assume too much, and that makes the info open to interpretation.
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Dewie
Jeeper
Junk Lord
Yeah thats right - I drive a Lada :P
Posts: 1,249
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Post by Dewie on Jul 30, 2009 12:01:44 GMT -4
*shakes head* This world is 'effed....
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Creepy
Administrator
Dartmouth
Posts: 18,718
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Post by Creepy on Jul 30, 2009 12:07:59 GMT -4
This: Now on another note I also was informed that if you roll and write your vehicle off while wheeling or run it into someone else or a tree or a rock, it is counted as a collision and would be covered under your collision and/or comprehensive insurance. Apparently WHERE the collision happens is not important. Someone was covered as he successfully argued that damage from a roll into a ditch is covered so off road is off road no matter how FAR off the road you are. I was unaware of this and was very happy to learn this. What really happens: It is not SPECIFICALLY forbidden, but you are doing something "outside normal usage" which puts you into a grey area that you CAN fight, but it would be expensive, and if the insurance company is facing 100's of 1000's of $$$ in claims of liability, they will fight to the bitter end. IF they lose and have to pay... When you come to renew you will be dropped and a Facility client for the foreseeable future.
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Enos
Hardcore
Founding Member
Posts: 8,513
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Post by Enos on Jul 30, 2009 12:11:42 GMT -4
Now, my question is, if I rent a U-haul trailer and get someone to tow it with my rig on it what are the rules? I guess that is a question for U-haul
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